Thursday, March 31, 2011

Trouble with the Practice of Tease-And-Deny

There are many blogs that advocate some degree of female led relationships ranging from a man staying home and becoming a housewife to becoming a total slave to a woman. Many of those favor the sexual satisfaction of the male controlled by the dominant partner. Most of these are written by men even when they claim to be women.

There are relatively few blogs dealing with the subject of tease-and-deny where the female admits to enjoying it when applying it to her partner. We are not even sure that some of those female-written blogs are authentic.

Looking at it from the point of view of a self-proclaimed submissive man, he will not voluntarily submit to drudgery and oppression by a woman without expecting some thrills for his troubles. Although a man, who is not necessarily submissive, may also want to submit in particular ways, he will similarly expect to receive some thrills from his woman. Let’s face it, a preference for voluntary submission of any nature is or at least borders on a sexual preference. In simple words, we call it a kink. Tease-and-deny fits in there perfectly, and I will show what the problem is, and why it occurs.

If you read patiently through the rest of this monolog you may want to refute my assertions by your own anecdotal evidence: citing an instance when this practice of tease-and-deny is working. Fine, if it is working for you. Just keep in mind that one instance does not make it true in general. You also have to ask, “How long has it worked? Is it continuous?”, and “Is it permanent?” I wish that I were wrong about this. Alas, that is not so.

Becoming Dominant by Decree

Before I get into this I will state that naturally dominant women have no problem dealing with intelligent and naturally submissive men. It is the other combinations that are troublesome.

There are a number of problems when the role of dominance is forced onto a woman whether or not she is vanilla or dominant already. Submissive people like to be forced in limited circumstances. Some dominants will go along with it when it titillates their kink. Those near 50/50 and above on the submissive-to-dominant scale will resist. Those closer to dominant will fight.

I am convinced that if people are left to their own devices when they are expected to be dominant, they don’t change. If conditions are right they might accommodate the circumstances and do something out of kindness for a while. The problem is, it is not natural for any person to do this. The would-be dominant woman may learn the technique expected of her by her relatively submissive man from various sources. She may learn the advantages to her. However, on the long run she will revert to her natural inclination. She is expected to perform in a way that is contrary to her being naturally dominant or dominant by decree. If she is dominant already, then she need not do anything that her submissive partner expects, after all, she wants to run the show as she sees fit. Yet the submissive partner truly expects certain things from her. So there is a logical contradiction in the requirements that leads to strife.

I have read many postings by men expressing their frustration about “Her not understanding the problem, therefore, not following through with the tease-and-deny”. They claim that even after a number of attempts at explanation, hints, offer of reading material, their women “just don’t get it”.

I believe that the women do get it. An intelligent woman understands this kinky submissive need very well. This is especially so after reading authoritative articles and books on it (I am not talking about reading the fantasy of some illiterate blogger). The problem is not lack of understanding, but lack of purpose. Every time she senses that her submissive man needs more tease-and-denial it is a chore for her that should not be assigned to a supposedly dominant woman. To a man expecting it, her reluctance makes no sense. After all, he is not asking for blatant sex. He is not asking for penetrating intercourse. All he is asking for is sexual domination by her and occasional release. In other words, “Here is the script, please follow it.”

It takes two to have a relationship. The submissive man’s part is passive. All he needs to do is follow her orders. The supposedly dominant woman’s part is active. Regardless of what the man thinks, the woman has the responsibility of planning the scenario, laying out the props, and then executing the scenario. She is also likely to do a self-evaluation afterward, “Is this what he expected? Did I satisfy him? How in hell can I be dominant and still do what he says or expects of me?”

Unless she gets a sexual thrill out of this blatant sexual kink of her submissive partner, or out of the power she has over him, she will not do it; at least, not for long, and not often. I coined the term “ignore and deny” by paraphrasing the tease-and-deny idea in a couple of my earlier postings. Ignore-and-deny fits very well into the behavior and expectations of a woman whether she is dominant or just playing dominant: it is much easier to maintain than tease-and-deny. If a man desiring tease-and-deny feels being ignored, she does not see it that way. She may feel that his being denied satisfies her obligations. If he tries to explain again, she will just feel guilty or angry or both, and the man will get nowhere. These men may as well get used to it.

Still, It Works In Short Spurts, Sort Of …

One might say that even in a vanilla relationship a woman will do things for her partner simply because she loves him and knows that he needs it. Yes she will do that sometimes, but not often enough. This is why many men wish to be in a female led relationship, and consequently become the object of tease-and-denial. That last wish validates his lack of adequate sexual satisfaction. If he achieves those two wishes, then the result will legitimize his not getting enough sex.

If she goes along with his need for tease-and-deny, she is doing something for him out of love. But don’t expect the whole nine yards 24/7/365. Even her parts would wear out if she tried. A somewhat reasonable alternative to tease-and-deny is offered by chastity play that comes with built-in denial. If she leaves most of the details to her man, then she need not do much, which supports both tease and the ignore version of denial. There are problems with these too, which I may cover in another post. The trouble is that practicing the mythical forced chastity will not change a thing. The long-term maintenance of this new kink is still her responsibility, and she will handle it the same way: ignore it.

This attitude by the woman is not because of the particulars of tease-and-deny and ignore-and-deny. If the man has other kinks that don’t work without her support, he is just as much up the creek without a paddle. Vanilla marriages and relationships break because of the woman’s unwillingness to support his kink. Kink needs maintenance for satisfied relationships, and maintenance is expensive in time, attention, effort, etc. That is how professional dominants make a living.


Serving B said...

Hers Forever:

I understand your points. When it's additional work for the dominant partner, it's unpleasant and against the idea of submitting to someone.

My partner engages in chastity and tease and denial but she does so on her own schedule. I am not permitted to mention it to her, unless asked.

She wrote about it on my blog.

cuklet said...

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Just to confirm some of what you are saying: My wife is naturally dominant, and makes most of the decisions in our marriage, but she does not like the explicit requirements of what she calls "games". She already decides when and how we have sex-so anything I ask for is merely an imposition. So, it takes some experimentation and creativity to get my desires met. I have learned that most experiments won't work, and submissives often have to learn to like what they get. But here is something that worked along the lines of what you called "ignore and deny". If it were up to me, we would have sex a lot more than She would. That leaves her feeling "pestered". So now on her side of the bed there are two small stones, and a jar. I am allowed to ask for, hint at, or otherwise bring up sex, or even ask to play with myself, 2 times a month. Each time I do, a stone goes in the jar. Of course, she is under no obligation to have sex, or allow me to play with myself, just because I ask. And she can initiate whenever she wants. But the physicality of the stones and the jar allows me to contemplate that my sex is controlled, while she gets the benefit of not only ignoring me, but also not being pestered by me. This only worked because it worked for her naturally. Some things like this have worked in our relationship, but many others haven't, and I think you hit on the reason-naturally dominant women don't want to feel controlled, and generally don't need to.

Susan's Pet said...

Thank you for your comments. Serving B, I have recently started to read your blog, and am still on December 2010. I am looking forward to the post you have indicated. Your position would be ideal for most men who are into tease and denial for whatever reason. To have a naturally dominant wife who takes interest in sex and on her own terms is great.

Cuklet, I have read enough, and experienced enough to know that most people try games or experiments in their relationships. You said, “most experiments won’t work,”. I think you meant “they may be fun, but are abandoned after a while.” Games get tossed because in their enthusiasm, the participants make them too complex with too many rules. When a woman is already dominant, there is no need for complex rules: you just do what she says. If she is a loving dominant, you love to follow her.

You guys are both lucky to be in your position. Cherish it!

Serving B said...

Hers Forever:

You're welcome. I've enjoyed following your blog because you do have very good insights to offer.

I applaud you for working your way through mine. I was rather prolific at times. I think reading the blog you will see an evolution of my relationship and my thinking about what a female led relationship is. It is now much more about her these days, and it took me some time to get there (despite much sound advice I had read on the internet).

One point about your comment. B and I are engaged, and we live apart. To that end, we can't have a full 24/7 flr, but the dynamic is always present.

Keep on blogging!

whatevershesays said...

I would wonder how many wife led marriages "suffer" from a wife's low libido.

Susan's Pet said...

I too, wonder. You have a widely-read blog. Perhaps you could post a poll with that question. It would be illuminating.

Another One said...

The key to your entire post is this sentence: "Unless she gets a sexual thrill out of this blatant sexual kink of her submissive partner, or out of the power she has over him, she will not do it...."

Really, the hope of many a man who tries to expand the horizons in the bedroom, or in the relationship, is that once introduced to the concept, she will enjoy it. She will develop her own desire.

This is not as far fetched as you'd think, but that's only because the type of people in this world and type of relationships are limitless.

Of course, you're right that if there is a frigid utterly vanilla wife who never allows you to even have sex with the lights on, she will freak the hell out if you try to introduce kink or anything else into the relationship. I'm sure we all know people and/or relationships where this is the reality.

Then again, I'm sure there are also a lot of vanilla wives" who are vanilla only because they, unlike their husbands, don't spend time looking at porn and getting introduced to all of this kinky stuff in the first place. While that may be "GGG" on things suggested by the guy, they usually don't introduce anything themselves. These types could be very interested in the new dynamic.

Ultimately, it does just boil down to what people like. While I consider myself open to many things, there are definitely different kinks and/or play that I could not do. I mean, if she came to me and said she wanted to engage in that "adult baby" stuff, I'd have to politely decline, regardless of how much reading material she provided to me! As you say, I'd definitely "get it", but definitely not want it.

Emma Kelly said...

Hi Susan's Pet,

I think I understand what you're getting at here and, to a significant degree, I concur. Don't you think that what long-term couples find enjoyable and fulfilling to both of them become the kink activities that endure in their relationship.

Em and I are still doing certain things - caging, caning, chastity, Female-Led-Marriage - for many years now. Some things like feminization never resonated with either of us and, though we tried it, let it pass. Cuckolding was a real turn-on for us both for a number of years. But over the last year and a quarter while Em was back at school we just didn't have the time for it. It may return when she is back in the work force again because we enjoyed it. We'll see.

Chastity is actually something that Em enjoys as much as me. She likes maximum control/minimum effort so scenes where she locks me up in some fashion then goes about her merry way give her a real buzz. The fact that I am seriously aroused when locked up is a plus.

I realize I may be an exemplar of those anecdotal examples you mentioned above but I think to sustain your argument will require that you provide some vetted research examples yourself. I'm not disagreeing exactly with what you're saying. MOST of what we read in blogs has to be taken with a grain of salt. All of us who blog have to deal with issues of credibility. You said that most blogger who claim to be women are actually men. I suspect that you're correct but I can't prove it. People have been stretching the truth since the stone age.

I think in the big picture, couples exploring what pleases them is healthy, even if it's not as hot and beautiful as it appears to us embellished on our computer screens.


Mrs. Kelly's Playhouse

Susan's Pet said...

During my extensive reading of blogs by many struggling males with their problems along these lines, the majority dealt with women who are not as sexually charged as their men. It could be that many of these men were just overly sexed; then again, many of these women simply did not want to adopt a lifestyle that the men craved. This is not a statement of “women are less sexual than men”. What is happening is that couples are not entirely honest when they decide to hook up in a long-term relationship. Later one or the other finds out that they are not well matched. The other trend is that people change over time. One may want to escalate the kink, whereas the other thinks it is too much already. In this case a woman need not be frigid or accept only vanilla sex and still present an unsolvable challenge to a man. I would say that a well-matched couple that remains satisfied over long-term is rare (see the comment by Emma Kelly above).


Glad to see you are still reading. I think that yours is an example of one of the rare successful relationships in both kink and marriage. What I was trying to point out in this post is that both partners have to espouse the particular kink in order for it to work. From time to time wishful thinking supported by perseverance works, but it generally fails. The man becomes disillusioned when his fantasy does not turn real, and the woman gets tired of the tedious chores that she must follow. They can still play occasionally, but not turn it into a life style.

I wish you and Emma continued and satisfying kinky relationship. I have enjoyed your escapades over the years.

Emma Kelly said...

Hi Susan's Pet,

We have been going through a stressful time due to Em's career change and were rather inactive over the last year and a quarter. We are recharging our batteries.

Very interesting post. Seems that the reality vs. fantasy question that crops up in blogs from time to time is spreading around the blogosphere again.

Thanks for responding to my post. I've reactivated your link on our blog.


Mrs. Kelly's Playhouse